Europe is dealing with Trump all wrong, according to his former national security adviser

President Donald Trump’s quick-fire approach to ending Russia’s war against Ukraine has left European allies worried they are being sidelined by the United States administration, as Washington and Moscow conduct direct negotiations.

It has also caused a crisis in European capitals about the future of NATO, created in the wake of World War II to uphold security in Europe and protect it from a Russian threat. Now, it’s America that looks as if it’s turning its back on NATO and Europe — in search of a grand bargain with Moscow.

Host Anne McElvoy talks with John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who also served as national security adviser under Trump, and Sanna Marin, Finland’s prime minister from 2019 to 2023, who led the country to its NATO accession.